The (Imaginary) Glock 1911 Service Pistol

September 4, 2004


Please recognize up front that while this review WILL contain some good information about various .45ACP pistols, it is (by-and-large) going to be a conceptualization of a non-existent pistol: The "Glock 1911" or G1911 for short. This idea may not be as far fetched as it seems. Within the past eighteen months major gun manufacturers have introduced their own variants of the Government Model 1911 pistol. Smith & Wesson - a historic competitor of Colt's - introduced a 1911 model that has been well received. SigArms has introduced the GSR; a 1911 pistol from a manufacturer notorious for their decocking system and no external safeties. There is no shortage of companies that manufacture the 1911 design: Kimber, Springfield Armory, Llama, and more. A GLOCK 1911? Well yes, and not quite...

Now, let's recognize a few things before I continue on and start comparing information about current market pistols. "Barrel length" for pistols typically includes the chamber. In a .45ACP weapon, the cartridge is about 7/8" long (.875"), so the actual rifled portion of the barrel is that much shorter than the published information. What does this mean? And does it matter? Maybe it doesn't mean much when you are talking about combat accuracy. Out to distances of 25 yards, is there a huge difference between a three-inch barrel and a five-inch barrel? Probably not unless you are a competitive shooter or you're dead set on one-inch groups. I once read that "combat accuracy" was acceptable if a pistol could put a full magazine of shots inside an eight-inch circle. After all, that's more than sufficient to keep your shots on a man-size target.



So, the four pistols I'm primarily going to discuss are the Glock Model 36, Glock Model 21, Glock 1911 and a representative of the Government Model 1911 - in this case my Springfield Armory 1911. Since I brought up the barrel length first, let's compare the four. I'm going to list the three REAL pistols and then create numbers for my imaginary G1911. At the end of this I think you'll see where I'm going. After the published barrel length for each REAL pistol, I'm going to deduct the chamber length and list the actual length of rifled barrel each weapon has.

Glock 36: 3.78 inches published = 2.905 inches
Glock 21: 4.60 inches published = 3.725 inches
S-A 1911: 5.00 inches published = 4.125 inches
Glock 1911: 4.875 inches specified = 4.00 inches of rifled barrel

Why did I make the fictional G1911 have a 4.875/4.0" barrel? Because, in my experience, even barrels as short as that G36's 2.905" barrel produce acceptable accuracy out to twenty-five yards. In fact, my G36 can print seven-shot groups fired freehand at twenty-five yards of 2.5" or less. That's WELL within that previously mentioned 8" combat circle. My S-A 1911 does MUCH better. I've shot repeated seven-shot groups of 1.25" (one ragged hole) freehand from the fifteen-yard line. That's from a 4.125" barrel. So, to my way of thinking, a 4.0" barrel should be capable of accuracy somewhere in between those two - and certainly sufficient for a self-defense or combat weapon.

Now I have to recognize that my adding length to the barrel of a G36 will also make the gun longer overall. How much longer? Let's figure it out. The G36 with it 3.78" published barrel has a published overall length of 6.77 inches. That means that there is an additional 2.99" of slide behind the barrel. I just couldn't believe that and had to pull my own G36 out to measure. Darned if it (the published numbers) wasn't right. It's just a shade less than 3" from the breech face to the back of the slide. For the sake of argument, I'll add that 2.99 inches to my fictional G1911's 4.875 inches of barrel to come up with an overall (slide) length of 7.865". Does that sound like a lot? Consider this: The Glock 21 - their full size .45ACP pistol - has an overall slide length of 7.59". My S-A 1911 has a published overall length of 8.5"! Now, of course, that includes the hammer and grip safety - things the Glock doesn't have. So, if we deduct them we still have a mean slide length of about 7.7". Let's line those numbers up and see how much extra slide we have as compared to actual rifled barrel length in each:

Glock 36: 6.77 inches published = 3.865" extra
Glock 21: 7.59 inches published = 3.865" extra
S-A 1911: 8.50 inches published = 4.375" extra
Glock 1911: 7.865" inches specified = 3.865" extra

My G1911 is right on course with the other Glocks and looks to be slightly ahead of the Government Model representative pistol. Is it fair to compare this fictional pistol to the Glocks AND the Government Model? I think so. Glock really broke the mold when it introduced the slimline single stack Model 36. It's broken it again with the introduction of the Model 37 in .45GAP. Let's continue on.

Barrel length and slide length are obviously related. Height of the weapon is more related to magazine capacity and, therefore, grip length. Let's check them out. Since I don't have a G21 to measure, I'm just going to use the published Height of each pistol to represent the grip height. The G36 sports a relatively short height at 4.76". The G21 is taller at 5.47 inches. I couldn't find a published height for the S-A 1911, so I broke out my pistol and ruler - and determined it to be fractionally under 5.5" - about the equivalent of the G21. Now on my G36 magazines, I've added a "+1" extension so that I get seven rounds in each mag. Using that magazine and measuring the G36 with my ruler, I get a height of 5.25". If I measure to the top of my sights then it goes up to 5.4". Here's how the numbers line up:

Glock 36 = 4.76" published >for six rounds in the magazine
Glock 21 = 5.47" published > for thirteen rounds in the magazine
S-A 1911 = 5.5" measured > for seven rounds in the magazine
Glock 1911 = 5.4" specified > for seven rounds in the magazine

Looking at the numbers, unless you know Glocks pretty well, you have to be wondering how come there is such a big difference between the G21 and the G36 magazine capacity when the length difference is only 0.71 inches. The answer, for those of you who don't know, is that the G36 has a single stack magazine while the G21 has a staggered or double-stack mag. However, it is important to note that this double-stack magazine has an attached price: the price is an increase the thickness of the frame / grip. That's where we look next.

For the G36 there is a published width of 1.13 inches. The G21 has a 1.27 inch width. The S-A 1911 doesn't have a specified width, but here's my trusty ruler measurement: just over 1.25 inches. So, we see that the S-A 1911 and its seven rounds don't offer a huge benefit over the G21 and it's 13 rounds. In fact, it's the other way around: grips about the same width but six extra rounds in each mag of that G21. The difference in width between the G21 and the G36 seems insignificant at 0.14 inches. After all, that's little more than one-tenth of an inch, right?

Think about this: Grips are closer to being square than they are round. Give them four sides: left, right, front and back. I don't have a G21 handy so I can't measure the length of the sides of the grips, but I know that the G21 shoots the same round as the G36 and can presumably have grips that are of at least equal side length. Using the published width and assumed side length numbers, what we get for the G21 is a circumference of 7.04 inches.

G36 grips measure at 2.25" side length with a slightly larger measurement for the palm swell in the back strap. We'll ignore that for the moment. Adding up both sides, front and back widths of the grips for the G36 we get a total circumference of 6.76 inches.

My S-A 1911 has a flat main spring housing, so there is no palm swell. The grip side length measures in at 2.1 inches. Adding both sides, front and back together we get a total circumference of 6/7". My fictional G1911 would have grips identical in width and side length to those of the G36, so the G1911 circumference would be 6.76 inches.

The final measurements that I'd like to look at are the loaded weight of each pistol and the sight radius of each pistol (distance between the sights). The loaded weight has a direct bearing on how comfortable the weapon is to carry (especially concealed) and the sight radius impacts on the potential accuracy of the weapon.

The G36 has a published loaded weight of 26.99 ounces. That is the sum of the published empty pistol without a magazine plus the weight of a loaded magazine.

The G21 has a published loaded weight of 38.28 ounces: 42% MORE than the G36. That seems like a lot until you realize that the G21 offers you 85% more rounds. Think about it...

The S-A 1911 has a published weight of 38 ounces, but it doesn't say if that's loaded or unloaded. My money is bet on an unloaded weapon, so I'm going to add the weight of a Glock 36 6 round magazine as a way of evening it up, bringing the weight up to 44.88 ounces. That's just a few ounces less than three pounds - and no, I'm not being critical. I love my 1911 - but numbers don't lie and sometimes we learn things we didn't expect.

I don't feel confident that I can predict a loaded weight for my fictional G1911. It would certainly be more than the G36 because of the added barrel, slide and grip length. However, it wouldn't be as much as the G21 because the G1911 would still have a single stack magazine carrying seven rounds. It certainly wouldn't weigh as much as the all metal S-A 1911's 44+ ounces. Just to put a number on it, let's split the difference between the G36 and the G21 and we end up with these numbers for loaded pistol weights:

Glock 36 = 26.99 ounces
Glock 21 = 38.28 ounces
S-A 1911 = 44.88 ounces
Glock 1911 = 32.64 ounces (projected)

For what it might be worth, that would put the G1911 weight at just under the total loaded weight of Glock's Model 22 - a fifteen round .40 caliber weapon. On to the sight radius numbers.

For the Glock 36 the published distance between sights is 6.18 inches, or 0.59 inches less than the overall length of the slide.

For the Glock 21 the published distance between sights is 6.77 inches, or 0.82 inches less than the overall length of the slide.

For the S-A 1911 the published distance between sights is 6.75 inches, or 1.75 inches less than the overall length of the weapon.

To make my G1911 I added 1.095 inches of barrel to the G36 - so I'll do the same thing for the distance between sights. That would make the sight radius for my G1911 7.275 inches, or 0.59 inches less than the overall length of the slide - but a full half-inch longer than either of the other "full size" .45s. Where does all this lead me?



To my fictional Glock 1911: a single stack .45ACP caliber pistol with a four-inch barrel and a sight radius of 7.275 inches. It would weigh more than the G36, but less than either of the other "full size" .45s. Still, by standards set by those other "full size" pistols, the barrel length and magazine capacity would qualify the G1911 as a full size pistol itself. The grips would be more comfortable for those who don't have big hands and its thinner profile would make it easier to carry concealed than either the G21 or the S-A 1911. Have I recreated the wheel? Probably. But we all have our pipedreams. Before I forget, I should mention that my G36 fits well into holsters that were made for Glock 9mm and .40 caliber pistols, so the creation of a Glock 1911, as I've outlined, wouldn't require a whole new line of holsters. Tighten the tension screws on your current Glock 9mm/.40 holsters and drive on.

If you find the concept of a Glock 1911 as specified - noting that I mentioned no changes at all to their safe-action system - please drop me an email and let me know your thoughts. I enjoy getting feedback and accept it via email to frank@borelliconsulting.com.